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My lone set of The Zootman's WF Bubinga is the flagship of my stash. Until I heard of the bending difficulty, I was dreaming of what a killer guitar it will eventually make. I refuse to give up on that dream.

I would welcome the opportunity to give it a try if I could get the answers from some of the ideas already posed:
...how to best use glycerin
...researching the fabric softener technique
...trying out the Super Soft II veneer relaxer
...any other reasonable hypotheses

Toward that end, I'll be happy to do some trials on scrap WFB if anybody can send me some cutoffs of about 9" in length. I would imagine that short pieces bent at the waist would be a good indicator. I've ordered the blanket from John Hall and can do some temperature sensitivity tests as well.

Other ideas on what such a protocol might look like would make for an interesting discussion.

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JJ
Napa, CA
http://www.DonohueGuitars.com

Bob...Thanks for doing the testing on Super Soft. I'm looking forward to reading your results.

A major downside, as Scott mentioned, could be the drying time. However, the website goes on to say that a household iron can be used on veneer to speed up the flatening and drying time. Since we use a lot of heat to bend sides, this may not be much of an issue for luthiers. In any case, a little extra drying time might be a fair tradeoff for no-split bending on rare/expensive tonewood.

Veneersupplies.com also mentions that their product does impart some tint. Might be pleasant for some, annoying for others. Let us know what you think.

Carlton

As I recall, there were a few discussions of the unsuitability of glycerin for bending sides: it stays in the wood (fatty stuff, glycerin), and keeps it flexible for a good long time, which is find for bindings which don't really need to hold their shape, but not so much for sides. I've got two sets of the stuff, and it's definitely going to get the 2 blanket approach several years from now, when I've worked my way up through 'hard to bend' woods..

JJ-one other thought--the first one to use the stuff, and thus the first one to break a side, could always call the other and say "Hey, I need your set of sides, cuz...."

It really might be a race afterall!

Steve

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From Nacogdoches...the oldest town in Texas.

http://www.stephenkinnaird.com

Many moons ago, early '80s I think, Fine Woodworking did an article on bending using fabric softener. If I remember correctly, it involved using a capped black pvc pipe and letting the wood soak in water/Downy mix with the pipe set out in the sun for several hours. The article might even be in their book, "On Bending".

Steve...Be very careful while bending because if you crack one "you'll have to pry my WFB from my cold dead hands!"

You can borrow my tools, jigs, golf clubs, even my hunting dog( if I had one)...but nobody's getting my WFB!!

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JJ
Napa, CA
http://www.DonohueGuitars.com

[QUOTE=CarltonM] Check out veneersupplies.com for a product called "Super Soft II" (under their "Tools and Supplies" section). Looks very interesting for our purposes, though with some possible downsides. Not too expensive, though, for test purposes.

Carlton[/QUOTE]
Well the Super Soft II arrived yesterday. I just finished thicknessing a piece of waterfall bubinga that I cut from a flat sawn piece that I use to make bindings. I have it thickness sanded to .080 and hanging up to dry. You get a top quality misting bottle with it. The rest is going to be hit and miss. I am going to try bending it tommorow. If this piece bends anything will.

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Beautiful and unusual tone woods at a reasonable price.
http://www.rctonewoods.com/RCT_Store
The Zootman
1109 Military Rd.
Kenmore, NY 14217
(716) 874-1498

I just bent some waterfall bubinga. I had no trouble. here is how you do it. I soak the wood 1 minute in warm water. I also use kraft paper also soaked. I then set the bender up with the wood surronded by the wet paper. I use a heat blanket and took it to 300 degrees.
   One I saw good steam and could get a temp reading at the wood level of 220 degrees I started to bend. I took my time ( about 3 minutes to bend the set ) I held the temp for about 3 minutes and let cool.
I had a little flating at the graining extreems but this will sand round easily
john hall

This is a great thread. I have 1 set, so it is a one time shot at bending. At least I will approach it with as much knowledge as possible!

Thanks Everyone.

Jeff

Do you think the SuperSoft will interfere with finishing down the road? I heard once of someone using Downy...I think he was bending curly koa or maple bindings tho...a set of sides would really soak up the stuff it'd seem...

Larry

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http://www.presnallguitars.com

[QUOTE=L. Presnall] Do you think the SuperSoft will interfere with finishing down the road? I heard once of someone using Downy...I think he was bending curly koa or maple bindings tho...a set of sides would really soak up the stuff it'd seem...

Larry[/QUOTE]

The website says it won't interfere. Also, from the way it's described, it's a different beast from fabric softener--no stickiness, etc.

Carlton

[QUOTE=JJ Donohue] Steve...you beat me to the punch! I was just going to suggest that you do the same.

Seriously, I bought this highly figured stuff as an incentive to reward myself after I got at least 10 instruments under my belt. I'm at 4 now and slowly chugging along. Also, before I attempt the WF Bubinga, Eucalyptus and Sapele, I'm going to get a heating blanket.

In the meantime, Steve, let's see who blinks first!!! [/QUOTE]

JJ I love heating blankets but High figured wood is a situation where I find three bulbs on seperate controlers to very helpfull. By having each heating element i.e. bulbs on seperate controlers I can control the heat for the area I am bending and reduce or turn off the heat on the sections already bent help prevent scortching. On high figured woods I bend the lower bout first with all bulbs on. Then the waist with the lower bout bulb at 1/2 wattage. Then the upper bout with the wast at 2/3 and the lower bout off.

Well he is a preliminary report. The first attempt was waterfall bubinga flatsawn scrap at .085. I sprayed both sides with the super soft II and waited an hour or so to let it dry and sprayed one more time and let dry overnite. My thinking was that it's much thicker than veneer so maybe it needed more to penetrate deeper. Next moring the was some grain raising which is expected when you wet wood. I sanded down with 120 grit, marked the side profile and cut it out on the bandsaw. The rest is what I usually do. Misted with water on both sides. Wrapped in foil and put into Fox bender. Layers were shim stock, side, shim stock, blanket, shim stock. The blanket and controller are from John Hall. With my digital probe in place I turned the blanket on high. When temp approched 240 -245 deg I statred cranking down the waist area but not all the way. Next I switched the temp contoller to Variable and lower the setting trying to hols about 300 deg. Bent the lower bout first the the upper and finished cranking down the waist. During the day I cycled the heat several times at about 275 for 5 min. Next morning I removed the side and guess what? Not a single crack but some potato chiping that I'm pretty sure will sand out. Next up quilted sapele.

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Beautiful and unusual tone woods at a reasonable price.
http://www.rctonewoods.com/RCT_Store
The Zootman
1109 Military Rd.
Kenmore, NY 14217
(716) 874-1498

potato chipping? Meaning lateral curling, or flat spots?

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Brock Poling
Columbus, Ohio
http://www.polingguitars.com

Yes that s what I mean Brock. But I left the sides at around .085 so I'm pretty sure they would sand out. Like I said this piece was completly flat sawn. I think QS would fair better. I have a high figured piece of quilted bubinga that I have sprayed with the Super Soft II that I'm going to bend next. The quilted sapele side bent like butter. No stickiness either. When the wood drys it looks like it did before spraying it with SS IIBobc38488.7383449074

_________________
Beautiful and unusual tone woods at a reasonable price.
http://www.rctonewoods.com/RCT_Store
The Zootman
1109 Military Rd.
Kenmore, NY 14217
(716) 874-1498

This is a good experiment. I guess if this ends up being the "norm" we can at least go into it knowing that we will have to sand these things to get fair curves.

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Brock Poling
Columbus, Ohio
http://www.polingguitars.com

Brock the next thing I'm going to try is sand the side and apply some finish to it. I want to see if the SS II has any effect on the finish.

_________________
Beautiful and unusual tone woods at a reasonable price.
http://www.rctonewoods.com/RCT_Store
The Zootman
1109 Military Rd.
Kenmore, NY 14217
(716) 874-1498